Thursday, 9 June 2011


Should the new SNP Government now go for full independence?

You won't be surprised to hear me say yes.  Like it or not, Scots have always considered that Scotland is a separate nation from England.  In many ways like the opinion, that many Englishmen have, that England is a separate country from Scotland and shouldn't be a part of the EU.  I think the Scots are endured by many English.  They are fed shite about how Scotland is a drain on the English purse, when anyone with a modicum of intelligence can look at the GERS reports online and see that Scotland has been in surplus for many years.  Indeed, oil, a Scottish asset has floated the British Economy since the early 70s, a fact that is rarely mentioned.  Then we hear the crap about how the English bailed out the Scottish Banks, RBS and HBOS.  Well, these have been British companies, albeit with their HQs in Scotland, since 1707 and in any case the last time I looked, Halifax was not in Scotland.

Is there an economic case for independence?  Again I would say yes.  There is still some oil left in Scottish waters, so please, don't lets squander what's left.  We have 40% of all renewable potential in Europe with wave power going to be an important feature.  We should have control of these assets in Scotland, to be used for the good of the Scottish people, like they do in Norway.  Control of the seabed round Scotland should be our first priority.  At the moment that right belongs to the British Monarchy.  Osborne gave the Queen massive dividends from that source in his budget, (which was sneaked in so no-one noticed it), and I'm sure they don't need anymore money than they currently  have.

Politically, as the people of Scotland realise that an SNP Government is there to govern for Scotland and doesn't have one eye on their masters in London, they will realise the benefits of an independent nation.  The people of Scotland have the right to self determination in just the same way as the new Arab states do, so in my opinion now is the time to forge ahead to  independence.


Maverick said...

As long as that Independence does not mean signing away our sovereignty to the EU teet ....

Dr. Worden said...

That Britain is a state in the EU essentially relegates the significance of whether the state is partitioned, with the region of Scotland becoming a new state. See, for example, .

Of course, if Scotland would not become a new state in the Union, more would be involved in the partition.

McGonagall said...

Independence requires:

1. Control of foreign policy
A country can't be independent if their foreign policy is directed by a committee in another country.

2. Control of borders
A country can't be independent if others control its borders and decide who and what can come in and out.

3. Control of the economy
A country can't be independent if their currency is controlled by someone else's fiscal policy.

4. Legislative control
A country can't be independent if they are obliged to implement directives from a foreign body.

Unless Salmond is planning to leave the EU as well as the UK, introduce a Scottish currency controlled by a Scottish central bank, and introduce border controls at Gretna then independence is a myth.

Dark Lochnagar said...

Maverick, welcome to the blog. I would agree with you that there is no point in freeing ourselves from a burdening Union to become equally or more burdened by the EU. I believe that an independent Scotland should ne more like Norway and trading with the EU, not part of it and I know there are many in the SNP who agree with me.

Dark Lochnagar said...

Doc, welcome to the blog. I read your article and you fail to grasp the one, salient point, i.e. that the people of Scotland have the right to their own determination. All your other points, therefore become redundant. It is Britain that is part of the EU. It was generally accepted that when Germany became re-united, that East Germany would naturally become part of the EU. This at the time, was wrong as it would still be wrong to assume that an independent Scotland and England would desire to remain a part of the EU.

Dark Lochnagar said...

McGonners, you're in a right crabbit mood. FFS is the weather as bad with you as it is here?

1. An independent Scotland would have control of their own forces and therefore an independent defense policy. The 8.4% of the Armed forces would obviously have to be ceded to Scotland, who after they have withdrawn from NATO, (a policy I don't agree with BTW), would be more than enough to defend a small country like Scotland and to join in, if and when, the Hun has another go.

2.Control over borders would probably have to be run in conjunction with England, but as most immigrants want to remain in the SE, I don't see that as a problem.

3.I don't see why Scotland can't have it's own fiscal policy after all it will be the main oil producer in the EU.

4. Any country in the EU has to implement EU directives, but you wouldn't say that France, Spain and denmark for instance aren't independent countries! This is presuming of course that MR SALMOND doesn't decide to take his party down the Norway route.

5. Not like you, but you're talking shite!

McGonagall said...

"You're talking shite!" AU contraire mon ami.

"An independent Scotland would have control of their own forces and therefore an independent defence policy."

The EU now has its own foreign minister, embassies, and diplomatic service. Having an independent foreign policy is fast giving way to more centralised control by Brussels. Having an independent defence policy within the EU at this moment is proving a difficult row to hoe for the Irish. Although the previous Fianna Fail government assured the nation that the Lisbon treaty respected their right to a policy of neutrality, an independent defence force and defence policy, PANA are not so sure. They campaigned bitterly against ratification of the Lisbon treaty on those fears.

"I don't see why Scotland can't have it's own fiscal policy after all it will be the main oil producer in the EU."

Fiscal policy (the power to vary taxation) is directly linked to monetary policy (the power to expand or contract the amount of money within an economy). Without control of the money supply countries can end up like Greece having to raise taxes and eliminate services at the demand of bankers in another country. If they still had their own currency and central bank They would have other, less painful, options. I have heard the SNP consider either remaining in the Stirling zone or going with the Euro. Either of these options leave your fiscal (and monetary obviously) policy at the mercy of foreign bankers.

'You wouldn't say that France, Spain and denmark for instance aren't independent countries!" Hm - an exclamation mark instead of a question mark. You assume I would agree that they are indeed independent.

The countries you cite are all members of the EU, members of the Schengen area, and the Eurozone. In the first they are required to implement directives from an unelected cabal. In the second they are required to let anyone into their country from other Schengen area countries without let or hindrance - even if they are illegals from Tunisia and Libya. In the third they are required to submit their budgets for approval by Eurostat prior to presenting them to their own legislatures.

So no - they're not independent.

As for the Norwegian route this changed my mind about that:

Dark Lochnagar said...

McGonners, for some strange reason, your comment went into spam. I don't know if that says something about Google, the bog or your comment. Anyway,

reading your comments, I discern that you may be against the EU and in that I would as you know agree. Your views are therefore dependent on whether Scotland becomes a part of the EU as a seperate state, (formerly part of the UK) England too, at this point will be able to choose whether they stay in or not according to international law. There is no chance of Norway joining the EU, BTW.

Dark Lochnagar said...

McGonners, BTW, when did Stirling get it's own currency? Before or after I started my bog? :)

Anonymous said...


If STIRLING got it's own currency after you started the BOG, then it must have been a SHITE currency?

Boom Boom.


Dark Lochnagar said...

Stephen, that one, was unworthy even of you!

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