British Muslim radicals were among at least 61 people arrested in Paris today in connection with an illegal rally against France’s burkha ban. They included Anjem Choudary, the radical cleric who advocates sharia law for the UK and who calls British soldiers murderers.
What do you think? Should Britain have a ban on the burkha, (and associated Islamic headgear).
I'm uncomfortable with the Burkha. It's my belief that if immigrants come here from the third world, then they should try and adhere to the customs of the host country. If I went to Pakistan, I wouldn't wear a kilt, (not that I wear one much now), nor would I wear traditional western trousers, if that wasn't the custom. In fact those nightie things the men wear there look very comfy. On the other hand, my instincts tell me that people should be able to dress as they want. Where I do have worries though is how many Muslim women actually want to dress in traditional Muslim garb and how many are doing it because of their husbands?
There is also the security aspect. Who knows who is underneath a Burkha? Who knows if it's even a woman? Can they see properly? Should they be allowed to drive wearing headgear? So, I would say on balance, although I don't have any strong opinions either way, I would say that on balance, the banning of Islamic headgear for women would be desirable.
20 comments:
Folks should be free to wear whatever fancy dress they want. What should be banned is Islam.
Not bothered about the Burkha, it's the full face veil that prevents social interaction and identifying whether the wearer is male/female.
I personally think that it's not a threat, the media is responsible for the manipulation of the public's perception. Ever thought that we are being played?
Each to their own, society will continue to change if not evolve!
CD
McGonners, I would go along with that if we banned the rest of religion at the same time, Christianity, Judaism and all the rest, although the Bhuddists seem to be OK.
Daisy, I take your point. There are so many different variations thats why I said 'associated headgear'. Personally I would stop the Sikh thing of driving a motor bike without a crash helmet, because they have to wear a turban. One rule for one, one rule for all.
"Should Britain have a ban on the burkha"?
Only in any public place. For security reasons.
It is commonly accepted that 'Hoodies' are banned in certain areas; motor-cycle helmets have to be removed before entering shops, stores & banks. So why discriminate against those particular wearers?
Define "Burkha ban". They enact one tomorrow, and the wording of the law will mean motor-cyclists wearing fullface crash hats will be in violation of said law as will firemen wearing breathing apps, paint sprayers and on it goes.
My take on it is this, enforce the laws we already have. If I walk into my branch of Nat west wearing my Darth Vader outfit and get asked as I surely will to remove my helmet, and I reply "I'd love to Squire, but I'm unable to comply as being a Jedi, it's me religion innit". Anyone care to run a sweepstake on how long it would take before I get clubbed and tazered to the ground and surrounded by armed plod shoving MP5s in my face?
Last year my mate bought a car with tinted side windows. Had to get them replaced as they were a driving hazard, but driving whilst wearing a sack over your head is like perfectly OK?
Instead of an outright ban, use existing laws like cant enter bank with face covered, cant drive with face covered or cant walk through passport control with face covered etc.
It wont take long, drive with a sack on your head, your vision is obscured £60 fine and 3 penalty points, continue to drive with said sack on head, stop them 100 yds down the road, persist another 2 times and wave bye bye to your license for 6mths.
"the radical cleric who advocates sharia law for the UK and who calls British soldiers murderers."
Firstly, like him or loathe him, he makes a truthful point DL. If you are invading a foreign land, that poses no threat whatsoever to your own country, then the people over there doing the killing are murdering people whether you like it or not. The soldiers know when they go into a warzone they will kill and that's premeditated manslaughter = murder.
Secondly, should we start banning the burkha then we instantly become oppressors and no different to the Islamic males who force women to wear them.
You can't ban it as it immediately means the government wins. The mass migration to the UK by Muslims was known to have just this outcome, hence why it was done. Muslims are being played and we've been played for a while now.
Moreso DL, when foreigners come to another land, many do not integrate, for the simple reason that the culture they're coming to is the polar opposite to their own. Cities attract them where they can meld amongst their own groups, within their ghettos. The culture they come into is not their culture and thus they won't integrate because rightfully so it isn't theirs in the first place and you can't just adopt a culture and history for yourself. It's either in your blood/family etc or it isn't.
The reason why it's becoming a problem now is because there are lots of women in the UK now wearing the Burka and thus more noticeable. The add to that the constant articles in the MSM about Islamic terrorism and the temperature is rife for anger and violence from both sides.
The problem started when they started to being them in for the many reasons you know, but regardless that's where the root of all the trouble lies.
The whole thing's a mess sadly and there's not really much we can do I'm afraid to say. If you want to sort the problem out, that action would be looked upon as far too draconian, yet doing nothing only prolongues the inevitable future conflict, that happens when any minority group/culture's population grows.
Harbinger
I realize its a religious thing but in this day & age,they can't be tolerated in public spaces, like banks, government offices,driving a car, at the airport or on the drivers License. Anywhere really that security is paramount.
Ten years ago, this was a non issue, but now we have MEN who would don a burka to kill and do. Unfortunately for the safety of all, this practice is not compatible in today's security conscious societies unless you are in the Middle East.
Is it an infringement on the women that wear them? Yes, but shouldn't the security of the greater public also be taken into account. As a member of that public I say yes, it does.
Is there hostility in western societies to this practice? Absolutely, and plenty of it. It strikes at the heart of our striving for equality. It's not wanted.
Solely as a woman they just piss me off, especially when she is swaddled in black and the males are in shorts & t-shirts on a blazing hot day. I've seen it plenty of times going to DisneyWorld & big cities during the summer.Cover your hair if you must but all the rest? How about just dressing with modesty in mind, that should be enough. Unfortunately its not. It is to me total overkill and just an excuse to oppress because this is a man-made rule. It is a extremely radicalized expression of modesty,so to answer you, I am someone who thinks it should be heavily discouraged if not banned in public places.
~I am, Freebird
I agree with you. To all intents people should dress as they like, when they like. I appreciate security issues may get in the way of my, and other people's, freedoms.
So unless the French are having a go at Muslim women (and their men), as I suspect they are, I will expect to see no face coverings on anyone; posh Parisiennes with nets over their faces, motor cyclists, hoodies with scarves...etc.
I go to Paris often. I will be there in November. It may well be cold, and if it is, I shall wear a scarf over the lower part of my face and my hat pulled down.
I probably won't do that inside as the French have heating, but if someone tells me to take them off in the street they will be told to "aller...et s'en culer!"
I believe in the Vatican men are not allowed shorts and women must cover their arms and legs. I accept that, as it applies to everyone. I wouldn’t want to disrespect anyone’s religion, although I have none myself. I have been in several Arab countries and I’ve never once worn local gear and I have no problems with people wearing different stuff here. It makes life more interesting a varied. It’s fair to say that the wearing of the burkha isn’t a demand of the faith in general, but like Christianity they have different branches. (No one said that the Wee Frees can’t wear a condom, and no one said that the Catholics can’t have a glass of wine on the Sabbath... and neither is in the Bible!).
Apropos of wearing what you want...looking along the benches of parliament all the men are in blue or grey suits with shit or blue shirts and ties... bloody hell, has none them any imagination. I mean the women may be hideous and look like they were dressed for a day’s washing and ironing, but at least some of the kit is imaginative.
Publes, I think I would agree with you, the only worry I would have is that they are being forced on women by their menfolk and I wish someone would do a survey on that.
Budvers, I didn't realise you were a Jedi. Fuck me, you never know who'll you'll meet on a blog. Do you ever have a night out with Captain Picard and discuss the cosmos.
I agree with you though, it certainly has to be a hazard when you are driving, to be wearing a headdress. I know the fuzz don't like tinted windows, I always thought it was because they couldn't see who was in the car. I would have though that on a sunny day they would be fine, but at the dead of night on a country lane, a bit like driving with dark glases on.
Harbingers, you and I got into terrible trouble I remember the last time we called British Soldiers murderers, but hopefully we changed a few perceptions. In fact it was just after Armistice Day last year. It was a right good discussion, all the same.
No, ad to say the mas of the country's Muslims are not going to integrate, they should never have been brought into the country in the first place. I firmly believe that third world countries should be allowed to evolve at their own pace without interference from the West. The same goes for all this crap in Libya. So Gaddafi kills some of his own. What the fuck has that to do with us. Libya is one of the most tolerant countries in the Arab region with womens' rights and health care way above anything else in the region. Gaddafi's face no longer fits and we've got to the stage where we are going to have to send in ground troops or face a stalemate. Fuck me, how the Zionists and big business have us dancing to a pretty tune.
Freebird, welcome to the blog. I think we have to be careful that we don't fall into the trap which is being set for us. This Christian against Muslim thing is a, IMO, a Zionist way of having more Christian boys die for the security of Israel. The whole agenda for the Muslims in Britain has been pushed on us. The CIA and MI5 are working with Al Qeada in Libya through, I think it's called the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. To be honest with you, I was reading a very interesting article which I can dig up if you are interested, but the more you look into what we are not told about Muslims and what is happening in the World, the more you realise we are being played. I don't think however, that the Bhurka should be worn in places where security is a risk, but we have also got to be careful that we don't panic every time we see someone with a headdress on, because that is what the Governments want, because they can then justify their defense budgets which put more money in the Jewish coteries of the Rothschilds.
Eagleman, welcome to the blog. I hope France does have another revolution and maybe this time it might spread here. If anyone needs rid of a corrupt and corpulent establishment it's the UK and the US. Our politicians have us for mugs and it's time for a change in the system and the reining back of large companies.
Tris, it would be better just to get rid of fucking religion, then we would all be better off.
I as you know, do not have a religious belief, but the last time I was in Rome, I was with my in-laws who were Catholic and wanted to see the Vatican. Like a right stupid twat and it being a hot day I was wearing shorts and of course some Swiss fucker outside told me I couldn't enter in case I shocked a nun or a Cardinal or something. Anyway it caused a bit of confusion, which I won't go into, but fair to say, Mrs DL and I had a few words when she was convinced I had had a heart attack and I was ensconced in a boozer just off St Peter's Square.
Where I do have a problem with religious edicts, is the Catholic Church's ban on the condom, which has caused millions of deaths in the third world, but I suppose they would just have starved or macheted each other to bits anyway.
In an ideal world, people should be free to wear/say/do what they want, without causing offence to others.
In the real world of course, we are banned from doing many things. Only today, someone from the BNP has been jailed for burning the Koran, which is banned. Smokers suffer from being banned from many places, crash helmets are banned from banks. Constituents being banned from contacting their local MP's for asking embarrassing questions.
The anti-smoking lobby will say that smoking is banned in pubs to protect those who don't smoke. In the same way, France has decided to ban the burkha to protect those women who are being forced to wear it.
It's contentious but we either live together in harmony or not. The followers of Islam are the first people to riot, threaten and stampede on our freedom of speech when they are offended.
As a woman I find the burkha offensive but only because I have known girls who have been forced to wear them. As somebody who sometimes has difficulty in hearing (I have intermittent tinnitus), I find it offensive if I can't see people's faces and mouths when they speak. It's imperative for lip readers to see the face of the people they are conversing with.
A law banning any covering of the face would have been alot more sensible I suppose.
Sue, you make some good points. I think that nothing should be banned unless it is injurious to someone else. Obviously that would include smoking but not Burkhas. Now I can see how you have a difficulty in not seeing someone's face, so the solution is just don't talk to them. It's not however injurious to yourself.
As someone who is not religious and would ban, well ban is probably not the right word, all religions, I don't find anyone whether it is someone from the BNP burning a Qoran or a Muslim burning a bible, offensive, although I can see how it may lead to actions which would be injurious to someone.
My mother had tinnitus for many years and I think sometimes I am getting it to, so you have my deepest sympathy. It is a vile condition.
It's an afterthought DL... but I wonder if this would not be soemthing which would be decided in Edinburgh rather than in far off London.
Tris, aye I'm up for that as you know. I don't think however we have the same problems with Muslims here as they do down South. Apart from some areas of Glasgow, primarily on the South side and the odd kebab shop owner, they're are not a lot of Muslims in Scotland. Obviously there must be parts of Edinburgh and the bigger cities like Aberdeen and Dundee with sizable Muslim enclaves. As Harbinger points out above they probably shouldn't be here in the first place and if they all decided to move here we'd be swamped. Like him, I don't believe that an Islamic immigration can integrate here fully until religion is ended and people are judged by who they are and what their actions are in relation to the rest of society.
I think Budvar has got the right idea, DL, keep hitting them in the wallet by using the laws we already have and they will eventually stop wearing the bloody things of their own accord - job done - no ban necessary!
The government has already used the wallet-plundering tactics with smokers and they're about to start doing the same thing to drinkers - we could only hope that arresting/fining women in burkas for security/safety reasons would be more successful than the attempt to price smokers, (I'm guessing drinkers, too), out of the market!
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